123 responses to “Kashmir Is Too Small For Azadi”

  1. FAISAL

    Mr kaul if I agree with one of your view point,that majority of people who want freedom is concentrated in a small part of the state and they are small in number cannot make difference then why is not your Indian government is ready for referendum?because they know that majority of people of J&K are in favor of freedom.

  2. Patterson

    @Vivek Bhat,
    Udhampur is not only Udhampur town, it also includes large geographic areas in Gool, Arnas, Gulabgar, Reesi and many other upper reaches where people are fighting against Indian forces. These areas are unsafe and completely out of bounds for ordinary people like us because of the ragging turmoil.

    @KAUL
    Sorry to mis-spell your name. I have a friend here KOUL as well who stays in Kashmir for almost six months and has been one of my important sources of the pre-1947 Kashmir history. Another Koul, a linguistic teacher has given me lessons on Kashmiri in a far-off place in the east . Personally, I feel that the exodus of Kashmir Hindus (whatever the reasons and motivation)has been the biggest blow to the secular fabric of Kashmir. I will appreciate, if, you will honestly tell me that, other than the emotional bondage with Kashmir, what are the stakes of the Kashmir Hindus,if, Kashmir get Independence or something like that. Sooner or later, it is moving towards a solution that may not be acceptable to most of the Kashmir Hindus and militant extremists. But that is how solutions are arrived at in a democratic set-up (Majority opinion)

  3. Sandeep Raina

    Dear Mr. Kaul… Thanks for this Article..I loved the way you have segregated the various points related to kashmir which at the surface level look totally interwined to general indian population and world community..Kudos..it might be a serendipity but probably the time you were writing this one..i was reading an TOI published full page interview of Mr.Masarat Alam Bhat -a styled muslim league leader and had very simillar notions coming to my mind as have been depicted by this article…
    I however..wish to ask…would we all just keep thinking & writing about Kashmir..Don’t you think we now necessarily have to bring in these points of view at much larger public platforms that just on blog site (in your case) and social networking site facebbook(in my case)…i would welcome your comments on this issue?

  4. thekashmiris

    Do you know who are the real stakeholders of Jammu and kashmir and where does kashmiri Pandits stand:Read our latest post on our website .Its just 2.2% of the total population of Jammu and Kashmir.You have no authority to speak for remaining 97.8% .

  5. अनूप शुक्ल

    रमन भाई मैंने आजतक कश्मीर समस्या पर इतना अच्छा /सटीक लेख कभी नहीं पढ़ा। अनुरोध है कि इसे हिंदी में भी अनुवाद करके पोस्ट करो। लेख वाकई बेहतरीन है। इसे अधिकाधिक लोगों द्वारा पढ़ा जाना चाहिये।

  6. Vinay

    Dear Kaul!

    Kudos to you!!

    Thanks for posting this piece of article and forcing me to think and re-invent myself!!!

    There are several posts on several websites related to Kashmir issues from various angles well researched and well addressed but at the outset I sincerely admit that this too is a great piece of writing provoking the thought process. It has touched the nerve and triggered the desired chain reaction!!!!

    But at the same time I have few observations to make:

    1) When I read it first time, I knew that you had limited your research to geographical orientation of Kashmir. But you could not prevent yourself from falling into the trap of socio-political-economic-religious dimensions ruling the whole issue. You have managed to just brush through these issues even though against your wishes. The reason being that this trap has such a gravitational pull like a black hole in space that sucks everything into it and leaves no trace of the identity that got sucked into it. Only outcome being black hole growing stronger and much stronger leading to a big bang ultimately.
    2) Then I read it several times all the while when the comments from different angles kept on pouring in and added many dimensions to the article including those ones that were taking shape within me. And I am sure many more dimensions will be added to this article.
    3) Some of the other dimensions that have not been discussed so far in this article and I would like to draw the attention of all the contributing participants are listed hereunder:
    a) Genesis of the word Kashmir itself.
    b) Birth, history and progress of Islam in the whole world. This is essential because of two reasons. One reason is to understand Islam, particularly its violent nature. The other reason is highlighted in subsequent points (c), (d) & (e). Though the present article posted by Mr. Kaul did not have the scope for it but I am sure the subsequent posts on this article cannot prevent themselves from discussing this issue. And I would advise all to search the statements
    “GENESIS & PROPAGATION OF HINDUISM”
    “GENESIS & PROPAGATION OF ISLAM”
    “VIOLENT NATURE OF HINDUISM”
    “VIOLENT NATURE OF ISLAM”
    “WAS PROPHET MOHAMMED A PEDOPHILE?”
    on any search engines and I am sure all readers will be surprised by the analysis offered by various sites for these statements. And if participant is keener for academic purposes please do search for following statements too:
    “GENESIS & PROPAGATION OF CHRISTIANITY”
    “VIOLENT NATURE OF CHRISTIANITY”
    “LIFE & TIMES OF JESUS CHRIST”
    “ISLAM VERSUS CHRISTIANITY”
    “ISLAM VERSUS HINDUSIM”
    “CHRISTIANITY VERSUS HINDUISM”
    This is important because the three religions are the topmost religions all over world and comparisons are obvious.
    c) Progress of Islam in Southeast Asia in general (particularly undivided India – Vrihat Bharat that included Kandahar, Pakistan, India as of now, Nepal, Bangla Desh, Rangoon, etc.) and Kashmir in particular.
    d) The growth of Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism and other religions – born out of Hinduism as a sub-sect and their growth as self-righteous wonderful religions themselves.
    e) The key principle of AHIMSA underlying Hinduism and the religions grown out of it vis-à-vis the violent undertones of Islam.
    f) The exodus (I term it a holocaust or genocide) of Kashmiri Pandits (KP’s) from Kashmir Valley. Well this issue has been touched in the subsequent discussions and contributions but I feel on periphery. No KP has dared to lay bare his / her bleeding wound.
    g) The lack of leadership in KP’s. The pathetic disharmony amongst KP’s and the resulting self abnegation or self denial mode of KP’s of not willing to go back to Kashmir Valley and recover all that that belongs to them righteously.
    h) The kind of facilities provided to Kashmiri populace (read it Muslim population for there are no Hindus available in valley now). How can you justify rice a kilogram per two rupees in Kashmir vis-à-vis a kilogram per ten rupees in rest of the country that is India? This was around two decades back. The things may be little different today but ratio probably will still be the same or may be has widened further. Our Kashmiri Muslim brothers may please enlighten us on this issue. As on today, the cheapest rice available in rest of India (other than Kashmir) is costing Rupees Thirty per kilogram distributed through PDS (Public Distribution System) exclusively meant for the sector that is below poverty line. And all participants please note that example of rice is just a symbolic representation of facilities enjoyed by Kashmiri populace. I will be happy if I find a surprise here that counters my observation.
    i) The current rate of unemployment amidst youth in Kashmir! Is it not prevalent on the same (or may be even bigger) scale in rest of the country? Is it attributed to non-development alone? Are not there other factors that contribute to this issue? And topmost contributing factor being the population explosion against the limited resources and opportunities. Whereas Hindus and other religions have been quick enough to recognize this fact and have taken corrective & preventive measures, what corrective & preventive measures have been taken by Islam to arrest this explosion within its frame of social / society engineering?
    j) The recent outburst by stone-pelters on the streets of Kashmir, they claim was in crucible for many years. Yes, I am in full agreement with it albeit for different reasons. It was in crucible for years together. It was being cooked to precipitation for week-long protest by Mr. Masarat Alam Bhat in jail. The fuel was ignited in March this year and dish was cooked to its taste by fomenting it as per the plans of Mr. Masarat Alam Bhat culminating it into recent killer weeklong protest. Everything of these weeklong protests went precisely according to plans and wishes of Mr. Masarat alam Bhat even though some lives were lost. (Please read The Times of India dated 17.09.2010) And my dear Mr Muslim Friends and ilk please wake up to reality that you and your causes are being hijacked and mis-utilized by rabid personalities like Mr. Masarat Alam Bhat, Ms Asiya Andrabi (her own kids are studying abroad and getting the best possible education for them), Ms Mehbooba Mufti Syed (whose sister, Dr. Rubaiya Sayeed was supposedly kidnapped by terrorists while she was enjoying all her comforts back home at official residence of one muslim fellow in Sopore and had taken whole country for ransom and in return for release of some dreaded terrorists Sheikh Abdul Hameed and Nabi Butt from Indian Jails. And please recall Mr. Yaseen Malik was one of the key players in this episode. Read electronic edition of much respected Pakistani newspaper Dawn dated 19.03.2003) and the rabid clan of all such people.
    k) Human rights violations in Kashmir. Well any such violations are to be condemned and discouraged out rightly. There is no replacement for loss of life in any form and more so importantly for human life. (This is what lies at the core of Hinduism that gave birth to philosophy of AHIMSA). But what does a soldier do when he is performing his duties against all odds? Does he not need to protect himself against these hostile odds? And beware my friends the odds in Kashmir throw many surprises for these soldiers. The philosophy of AHIMSA does not teach a soldier to be a coward. On the contrary it needs a great deal of courage to practice it which only an immortal soul like Mahatma could practice. It is beyond the capacity of us mortals. So if the chief of defense services creates a net of safety around his soldier to safeguard him and his rights where does he go wrong? I remember one particular incident that my grandmother related to me once. Sometime (around forty years back), when things were very peaceful in Kashmir Valley, an army truck was being driven through the streets, a chicken flew out of nowhere and got entangled into the wheels of the truck. The whole community descended on the army truck abusing the hapless soldiers and India and shouting pro-Pakistani slogans. Wow! Great!! Was that chicken a citizen of Pakistan? Did these soldiers deliberately invite the poor chicken to fly into the truck? Is it not rabidity at its peak? Did these poor soldiers have no rights? Were they not to be protected against such rabid mindset? Is it not violence? Is it not representation of violent Islam at its best? So what human rights are we talking of? Are we not playing sham with this phrase? Is it that human rights exist only for one side that shouts its throat soar for an injury grave or trivial, real or imaginary and it does not exist for the other side? Kashmiri Muslim must learn the ways of AHIMSA first. Islam must adopt and practice AHIMSA first.
    l) Rampant corruption in state administration in Kashmir. Who is governing state? Hindu? Kashmiri Pandit? Is National Conferrence a Hindu Party? Is PDP a Hindu Party? Or any other party in Kashmir province being governed by Hindu? So who is to blame? Hindu? India? Wake up my dear friends hold yourselves against mirror and question yourself. Test your own integrity against your much beaten word Kashmiriyat. You are fooling yourself. You are living in a world of self deception.
    m) My dear Muslim friends from Kashmir. What is your identity? Travel back in time for couple of generations. You will know your forefathers were Kashmiri Pandits who were forced to accept Islam by the barbarian act of Aurangzeb and his cronies. Do you not still carry the family names as Bhat, Pandit, Mattoo, Chaudhary, etc., etc. albeit with changes in spellings but maintaining the phonetic essence? And Pakistan disowned you for there was no place for Mujahirs in its state. So to prove to Pakistan and to rest of the Islamic world that you are more Muslim than any other Muslim in Pakistan or rest of the world you resorted to methods of blackmailing Indian state

    Thus said so far I would like to add few more points before I close. The details for points from 3(a) to 3(e) can be browsed through any search engines on internet and I advise all readers to enlighten themselves before adding any remark here so that I gain from your point of view and become richer by reading and understanding you. The points from 3(h) to 3(m) are self-explanatory and I would again love to get richer by the views and counter-views from you all.

    I now take up discussion on points 3(f) & 3(g). Well Mr. Kaul you are a liar when you say that you do not want to go back to Kashmir because you have nothing at stake there. Well you do not want to go there because your professional and family commitments keep you away from Kashmir is something different than you being thrown out of Kashmir with given no choice of return. Is it not genocide / holocaust? Will you be able to find a suitable match for your offspring with in your community while you are away from Kashmir? Won’t your offspring surprise you by finding a match outside your community? Had you not been thrown out of Kashmir would your offspring not have looked for the match in your own community? Is it not genocide / holocaust?

    Then where are leaders amongst Kashmiri Pandits? All are Daali Battaas. We can not unite because we have no ground. We can not have leaders because we are Daali Battas. So we are bound to suffer. So why we crib? So live the life of self denial or self abnegation by repeatedly consoling ourselves with the words that, “I DO NOT WANT TO RETURN TO KASHMIR BECAUSE ALL IS LOST FOR ME AND I HAVE NOTHING AT STAKE THERE”.

    Lastly, I would advise my fellow participants to understand the pains of partition through the writings of writers of those times, Saadat Hassan Manto in particular whose grandfather was a Kashmiri Pandit. Before partition Manto was haunted by Britishers. After partition Manto migrated to Pakistan and was again haunted by Pakistani Sate for his writings. And he was termed as Badnaam Manto. Read his masterpiece Toba Tek Singh, where in he states something like, “EK GADHI KE PET SE DO GADHOON NE JANAM LIYA, EK KA NAAM HINDUSTAN RAKHA AUR DOOSRE KA PAKISTAN.” Ain’t it apt? Are you listening my Muslim friends?

  7. Patterson

    @KAUL,
    So for the reasons you have given, the best way to determine the choice of the people from Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh, should be through an independent mechanism, it could be plebscite or any other free and credible mechanism. I hope that is what should satisfy all the parties. It looks to me too simplistic and unconvincing that people of Jammu and Ladakh want to stay with India when the otherside is saying that they want independence. Let there be a democratic way to determine that choice.

  8. thekashmiris

    @Kaul
    Thanks for the reply. As most of the Kashmiris do not think themselves as India so any idea or reason put forth my any India is treated as an foreign intervention.Also as you mentioned in your reply that Kashmiri Pandits were never treated fairly by kashmiri Muslims in Kashmir, I agree and disagree both at the same time – this will be a topic in itself.By advocating that Kashmiri pandits have a good future if they opt to live if they are like now,i am 100% with you on that.Now the question arises you are so much distancing yourself and your community from Kashmir that you have literally lost a stake and say in the Kashmir so advocating your thoughts as a Kashmiri pandit or an Indian is just waste.
    Also as you mentioned KP’s are referred by dali-battas and derogatory remarks by KM’s on twitter, Accepted but only after they are referred as terrorists. think which hurts more…calling dali-batta or terrorist…GOD Bless You

  9. Jeevan

    Let us take back our land from Pak..not the kashmir there but the whole of PAK as it belongs to India.I knwo that the end of all these misadventures of PAK will lead to Pak realising their mistake one day by losing their territory to India.

  10. Rajeev

    Kaulji,
    Please make sure Jammu and Ladakh are never mentioned as part of Kashmir in any debates. Whenever you people debate on media, please ask them to emphasise (politely like Indians or rudely like Geelani) that Jammu and Ladakh are separate entities and have nothing to do with Kashmir. Please try to get this blog published in mainstream media especially vernacular. The English media is all drama no substance.
    You have done a great service to the nation by educating Indians about reality of J&K&L.

  11. sundar

    Great article . We should carve out a new state Jammu and Ladakh and carve out Kashmir as a Union Territory , retaining strategic positions so as to take posession of the land within short notice if required .

    Amend Article 370 to ensure none from UT of Kashmir is allowed to relocate into Jammu / Ladakh or any other state in India , unless they pass a Legislation to allow fellow Indians to relocate into Kashmir , hopefully they wont.

    Provide only their due share of revenue and dont give them any special status . let them realize their real strength .

  12. प्रवीण त्रिवेदी ╬ PRAVEEN TRIVEDI

    detailed one !
    thanks !

  13. Patterson

    @KOUL,
    But India has agreed to a referedum in Kashmir under the UN resolution. That is not the case for Xingiang or Bolochistan. India is discussing Kashmir with Pakistan, US and EU regularly, only because Kashmir is an internationally accepted disputed territory (though India shies away from accepting the same publicly when the Hardliner Geelani asks for the same). Every year foreign delegations, Ambassodors and other agencies are visiting Kashmir for filing status reports and their visit is faciliated by the Indian State. Why? because it is a disputed territory. I agree with you that Kashmir is a complex issue and the Azadi is not round the corner but let me tell you that India can not afford the status quo as well. The maximalist positions may not bear the fruit but a solution that is senitive to the interests of all the stakeholder is being seriously discussed in Delhi, Islamabad and Srinagar. The concept and definition of Self determination, azadi and independence is being redefined in the context of finding solution to this vexed problem.

  14. vtpcnk

    >But India has agreed to a referedum in Kashmir under the UN >resolution.

    yes, but on the condition that pakistan should have moved out of kashmir (after it forcibly invaded). if pakistan vacates pok, then we can hold a plebicide.

  15. ASHISH

    Dear Mr Kaul
    this article is the most equitable piece I have seen on the kashmir issue. it hasnt surprised me one bit that it has come from an indian and a hindu. though it did surprise me it has come from a KASHMIRI PANDIT after all the devastation you have faced for decades on end in the Valley (of death). you can rest assured no islamofascist worth his salt would ever agree to whatever is written here. if they do its nothing more than ‘taqqiya’.
    there are many points on which i have similar posts elsewhere in social networkinig sites. the point these people dont really understand is article 370 has given them something no indian state can dream of getting. its pampering a child with all the wealth of the parents and leaving the rest to fend for themselves. what they dont really get it in their blind faith of their death cult is that pakistan will gobble them up in no time the moment india lets them go free. why is it so hard for them to fathom the state of PoK (the people they call their brothers) those very brothers of theirs have absolutely no rights of their own. they cant get govt jobs outside their state they are discriminated against in education and in the military. all this agitation is handiwork of people like geelani and mirwaiz who have been propped by our beloligerent neighbor – napakistan. these stone peltors are nothing but tools in the hands of vested interests. i can bet geelani will be thrown in jail or will be assasinated and other azadi leaders will meet the same fate once pakistan takes control of JK which is inevitable as i said should india decides to let it go.

  16. Karthik

    Excellent article Kaul. As a patriotic Indian I do believe that Kashmir should be allowed the referendum that we had promised to them and if they decide to leave us, so be it. Do not have an answer really though for the plight of KPs….

    Peace to you all.

    Karthik

  17. Patterson

    @KAUL, Not only Pak controlled Western J&K but the Aksai Chen shall be a part of the final deal. As per the agreement between Pakistan and Chin, the soverienty of Aksai chen is subject to the final outcome of the dispute. Mr. Kaul,do we think the region-wise referendum shall make any difference to the soultion? As per the demographic statistics, all the three regions of Kashmir, Ladakh and Jammu are muslim majority areas and with visible polarization of the people on religious lines, I doubt the outcome may be different. However,if the parties to the dispute agree to the region-wise referendum, I believe that it will be more fair and just and the solution could be more sustainable.

  18. How do we know

    Totally Godawesome article.Aise to kabhi socha hi nahi tha… itna sa majra hai to bhaiya.. lo aur khush raho. Are you telling us that we have been bleeding our security forces to death for 50 years for 15000 sq. km? Awesome!! I think that the 47% from Ladakh who want to be with Pakistan should migrate to Kashmir and live happily ever after in Pakistan.

  19. sundar

    Kaul , Can you help us understand the Geography a little better .

    What are the strategic impacts by letting Kashmir valley go conditinally – say by getting our pound of flesh by merging it with “Azad” Kashmir – do we loose control over the rivers ?
    How about Amarnath ? Is it part of the valley too ? We should not end up applying for visa to visit Amarnath as we have to for Kailash .

  20. पिद्दा सा कश्मीर, और आज़ादी?

    […] Kashmir Is Too Small For Azadi […]

  21. vijay kumar

    Kaul sahab,

    I read your blog with great interest. Hving lived in Jammu for many years in my school days I have special memories of the area.

    I am now sending you my ideas for a solution on Jammu, Ladkah and Kashmir. I hope you will read them with interest.
    —————————————————-
    Trifurcating JAMMU, LADAKH and KASHMIR-
    a solution to India’s problems

    Jammu and Kashmir, the northest part of united India, is our pride and yet today is crying needing our helping hand and a healing touch.
    So many formulae have been tried in the J&K and yet nothing seems to work as finally the separatists and the Pakistanis start creating problems and violence. Let us now, as Indians, seriously take up the proposal for tri-furcating J&K. This makes sense seeing the history and the violence which has almost killed 50,000 people.

    This will strengthen the secularism of India. If we can have separate states of Ladakh and Jammu, and Kashmir is reduced to 2500 sq km, things will be easily managable.

    The Kashmir problem which looks sizeable on the world map would immediately be reduced to the size it actually is. To a narrow strip of land, 30 km by 70 km in size.

    We could then use our resources to win over the hearts and minds of the people in this strip of land. As well as create a good infrastructure for tourism and industry.

    Let us at this point also remember that today, as Ladkah has been hit by a cloudburst and the population out there suffers and Sikhs In the Kashmir Valley are being asked by separatists to convert to Islam and join the violent movement, it is the separatists in the valley who are hogging the headlines and consuming all of the state’s budget….

    The need for this tri-furcation has never been as urgent as now….

    The salient features.

    a) Kashmir should be divided in such a manner that the river flow to the rest of India is unhampered. And our military and civil administration can have a better control over the borders and insurgents.

    b)Terrorist violence basically happens in 2500 sq km. Once J&K is trifurcated, it would be easy for the army and the civil administration to control 2500sq km

    c)A plebiscite will never happen as we are too strong to let the world force us. However in case of a hypothetical situation that it does, then India has the right of taking the vote of Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir.

    d) Pakistan has already integrated Baltistan as a seperate state, so we have to see what others are doing. In fact they have changed the demographic pattern of Muzzafarabad and occupied Kashmir so that Punjabis are in a majority.

    e) Once kashmir is reduced to 2500 sq km, it will make the separatists realise that their dream of a small landlocked independent country is futile.

    f) We can revoke section 370 for Jammu and Ladakh immediately after trifurcation so that patriotic Indians from all over the country can buy land and settle there.

    g) Ladakh has Lakes, mountains, and calmness as well as Buddhist tourist spots. A huge potential exists. While Jammu attracts lakhs for the Vaishno Devi Yatra.Once they shine, Kashmiris will be inspired to give up the gun and join the mainstream

    h) People of Jammu and Ladakh have time and again asked for separate states or UT status. Let us make them as states. Srinagar can be the capital of all three distinct identities of Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir, and would be a Union territory.

    i) There is a huge section of people in Kashmir, Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims who always favoured India over Pakistan or freedom. They would always remain with us. Infact they would work with double zeal to get their brothers who have been misled, back into the mainstream.

    j) We should remember that tri-furcation is not secession or ceding ground to Pakistan. Infact, by dividing states in the North East of India we have considerably managed to reduce the regional tensions. Further on, division of PEPSU led to three happy states of Punjab, Haryana and HImachal. And more recently, the creation of Chattishgarh, Jharkhand and Uttrakhand has led to a fast paced development of these areas….

    At the end of the day all people from the J&K region would be proud to be Indian. Currently we are holding the people of Jammu and of Leh-Ladakh hostage to the political machinations of a few outsiders.

    Why should we not, as Indians, push our government to start working on this tri-furcation?

  22. Piyush Raina

    What should be the fate of Kashmir, that time will decide on its own. This has been the most effective weapon over the centuries ! Over the decades, did anyone notice how Jammuites are suffering ??? How people are feeling unsafe ?

    If you kashmir muslims want to create another PAK with in J&K, please GA ! You will achieve nothing . Muslims have been fighting in this globe since ages ! We havent seen any country or muslim community which is living peacefully . I dont understand what kashmir muslims ( pakis/separists) are going to achieve with independent kashmir ??????? Thsi is just your illusion !! I would request my fellow from Kashmir – lets live with peace and lets progress togather because togather we can do more .. “Koi Mahzab nahi sikhata aapas mein beir rakhna ” . We are brothers of the same soil .

  23. Sabbah Haji

    Dear Mr Kaul
    Truly enjoyed reading your blog, though of course did not agree on everything. More importantly, I admire the TONE of your article and comments, and your civility, which a lot of Kashmiris lose when discussing this issue. Thank you for your courteousness and sense.

    A few points I’d like to put in:

    1. I am technically from Jammu, but support the ongoing ‘Azaadi=autonomy’ movement. And of course a substantial portion of Jammu supports it, once we move out of Jammu and beyond, say, Udhampur. Kishtwar, Doda, Bhaderwah, Poonch, Rajouri etc and many other districts here would align themselves with the Kashmir struggle.
    2. We speak Pahari, and that is almost the same as Kashmiri, barring accent, so that’s another cultural tie for a lot of us ‘nebrum’ folks.
    3. While I understand your perception of the struggle being an Islamic jehad, it is not. You imply that Kashmiri Muslims are against non-Muslims, period. Very unfair I feel. There are certainly some leaders who scream fanaticism (not anymore, but yes in ’89-’90 that was the scenario). There are even some hare-brained sections of society who think this way, but they are a tiny minority. The common man is not looking for a pure Islamic state, nor will that ever happen. Kashmiris themselves are not an ideal of Islamic living, we are too liberal and Sufi in our thinking. An Islamic state needs good Muslims to accept it, and honestly, the common Kashmiri is too lax to be called that. I can tell you personally that everyone I know (i.e. my region in Doda/Kishtwar/Bhaderwah) and relatives living in the Valley, would reject a so-called Islamic state because we all know how that goes in this day and age.
    4. I do not understand why we need to be apologetic about our being Muslim. Yes we are Muslims, we are proud of it, it is a very deeply connected part of our daily lives. If I say MashaAllah and InshaAllah for every small thing, it is a part of our upbringing and the Islamic culture. The same goes for our ‘Naara-e-Takbir’ and other Islamic chants. This is not an outcry against non-Muslims, it is our taking strength from our religion in times of trouble. That it has come to be seen as rabid jingoist behaviour is tragic, but understandable in today’s context, esp. post 9/11 after which Islam has got an image beating like never before.
    5. The idea of Panun Kashmir – is it exclusivist, in that Kashmiri Muslims would not be allowed in? Because that is not the idea of an Autonomous J&K. Where Muslims and non-Muslims alike would live together as they do today. (With the exception of KPs who left en masse [certainly in horrible circumstances] and never returned.)
    6. Ladakh is facinating. The people of Ladakh – i.e. Leh and around – (and portions of Zanskar) are so uniquely different from anything Indian or Kashmiri, and are so aligned with the Tibetan culture that it is astounding they were ever brought into the Dogra realm. They demand a UT status, and are pretty happy with the way they are. No disputes there. Let’s hope they are always out of a conflict situation, though with Pakistan and China breathing down their necks, I fear for them.

    It’s such a complex situation, where all voices have to be heard, and THIS is the point we are making. You have to let the people have their voice. If Kashmiris have been agitating for 60 years now, they ought to have some reason. Hear it out. At the same time, give Jammu and Ladakh their voice. Like you said, there are even Kashmiris who would opt for India. This is what we espouse as well. Let the majority decide. If the population skew is unfair to otehr regions, let it be decided based on demographics. Jammu for Jammu, Kashmir for Kashmir, and Ladakh from Ladakh. Then again, Jammu would need to be relooked at because there are diametrically opposite views within the Jammu region. It’s very very complex.:) But thank God we can talk about it sanely.

    I’m just rambling here. I’ll stop now.

    Once again, really enjoyed reading your post. Thanks.

  24. Sabbah Haji

    Oh, one more point.
    As to Pakistan, it’s a big ‘No thank you’ from Kashmir. Obviously this is a new development and was not the case 2 decades ago, but it’s a Whole New World since then. I think today’s educated, young Kashmiri knows better, and why not.

  25. alok bhat

    geelani is a pakistani..
    in his words “hum pakistani hai pakistan hamara hei”..

    he wants division on basis of relegion!

  26. Prashant

    Kaul,
    This is one of the best article I read about Kashmir, you have clearly point out problems and solution/ Even government can look into solution proposed by you.
    1. I also personally think Kashmir should go, it’s like cancerous body part, no matter how beautiful part is. It is causing too much money for Indian tax payers. Since it’s land locked economy will depend on Pakistan and India especially tourism.
    2. Separate Jammu and Ladak, integrate with main stream India. Move few industry over there and let local population enjoy job created by industry.

  27. thekashmiris

    @Sabbah
    As you mentioned “‘Azaadi=Autonomy’ movement” in your point# 1 adds to the confusion. Are you with Azaadi or Autonomy or you feel both are same.

    @Kaul
    Query related to your reply#5 (to Sabbah) regarding Panun Kashmir.Even if we believe KPs are asking for their genuine share, shouldn’t they ask for 2.2% of total area of Indian occupied Jammu and Kashmir or 4% of valley (based on KPs %age population – 2001 Indian censous).
    Can you check and confirm if the current imaginary Panun Kashmir Map reflects the same or not.

  28. Munish

    Thanks for such an articulated view. It is an eye opener for me. I believe this part of the article sums up everything: :”Kashmiri Muslims, in their arguments against Indian rule say that they are ethnically different, they have a different dominant religion, and so on. Most of them don’t see themselves as Indians. But then, it is exactly those things that set them apart from Ladakhis and Jammuites, who do see themselves as Indians.” Indian Govt is not going to gain anything by talking to separatist groups like Hurriyat Conference. And needless to say, terrorism needs to be dealt with iron hand and not in a soft way the successive governments have handled so far!

  29. vinay

    Attention: thekashmiris

    Mr. thekashmiris have you searched for “GENESIS OF WORD KASHMIR” on any search engine of internet (be it western search engine or search engine created by Islamic world)? Have you studied and grasped the contents offered by these search engines well? Do you know as a Kashmiri Muslim what your identity is? If you are not sure of your identity I request you to dig out the roots of your identity. And I am sure your search will end at the conclusion as highlighted in point no. 3(m) of my argument. So if you understand these two basic dimensions of your identity I am sure you will refrain from using the words of a person who is not well informed and term India as foreign. Your knowledge needs refinement because unrefined knowledge is more dangerous than the illiterate man on the streets of Kashmir for whom the survival in extreme conditions is more important. I request you to stay informed before being judgmental of any thing. I request you to search your roots first and do some soul searching. I request you to re-align your thinking. I request you to invent yourself. Your argument as put forward by you does not stand a ground. But if you admit that you are an estranged son of your father and want to have a separate space for yourself, it does carry a weight. However being a father, India will apply all possible means to correct the estranged ways of his son gone bad. And in this process of bringing back the child to correct course if there are some injuries it is only for the benefit of the son and not to harm him intentionally. And do you think father does not feel the pain when son behaves erratically? His heart bleeds no limits. But still being a responsible father he won’t open up his bleeding heart to estranged son until he falls in line.

    Kashmir has been part of India since ages and will remain part of it.
    You are pained to hear the word “TERRORIST” for you. I have full sympathies for you if you genuinely feel so. On behalf of all those addressing you so I am sorry for it only if you say that KASAB should meet his justified end. Why only KASAB? Why not all those responsible for spread of Islamic terror? Are you ready to do that? Are you ready to come into open and shout from the roof top “ISLAMIC TERROR! DOWN!! DOWN!!!”? Are you ready to demand the closure of all those machinations / factories that manufacture and export ISLAMIC TERROR? Are you ready to sing the song of AHIMSA? Are you willing to croon in streets, “MEIN AHIMSA KA PUJARI HOON”? How will this song be different from, “MAZHAB NAHI SIKHATA AAPAS MEIN BAIR RAKHANA”?
    Kashmiri Pandits are Daali Battaas. This phrase had existed much before the phrase ISLAMIC TERROR came into existence. And you were never apologetic about it. Rather you took pride in using the same at the slightest opportunity to demean the basic human right of a Hindu child on the bakery shop who went there to purchase his cookies. Are you not ashamed of yourself for bullying and inflicting violence on an innocent child and impregnating his thought process with hate against you and forcing him to revolt against you? Who is responsible for his shift in attitude? The poor child who is yet to know the wicked ways of world or you as a wicked adult bent upon baring your satanic fangs on the hapless child? You decide.

    Attention: Patterson
    Despite the several requests by Mr. Kaul you have not identified your identity yet. As per your identity I take you as a westerner and a Christian (though your ways of representing your arguments make me believe me otherwise). Also I am not aware in what capacity are you suggesting such demarcations of boundaries on Kashmir? Is it that you were a journalist and traveling to Kashmir? Or you are representing some organization that is funded by perpetrators of the thought that boundaries must be drawn and sealed? That is it and that is the final solution defined like a sword edge. Anyone, from either side of the sword edge, stepping on this edge will have to face amputation of limbs. Right, Mr. Patterson? There is a saying very popular in India, “DO BILLIYOON KI LADAAYI MEIN BANDAR ROTI LEKAR BHAGA.” Which literally means, “two cats were engaged in a fight over a piece of bread and the waiting opportunist monkey dashed in and stole the piece of bread”. Mr. Peterson, you are one of those opportunistic monkeys waiting for your moment to strike for the kill. This has happened in past when you made India slave for more than three centuries, sucked and drained its all resources, enriched your coffers for several generations to come and left India (India here means undivided India) in shambles and with so many ailments. So will you please leave us alone and mind your own wicked ways in your own house? We have been left wounded and amputated many times but not any more. My sincere requests to you are please stay away. I am sure if your suggestions go to the other side of the fence they will agree with my assessment of your being and your ways of poking into matters where you are not wanted. Further, I am sure that they too will tell you that your idea of amputating them brings a bad taste in mouth. So my dear friend, Mr. Patterson, if you hold your dignity important then please quit. We have not sought your suggestions. We are very apprehensive and scared of your opportunistic nature like that of the monkey as I have said above.
    Before you decide to quit from interfering in our matters, I ask you few simple questions? Have you ever faced exodus? Have you ever experienced the pains resulting out of exodus? If not please visit my community living in one room shanties in and around Jammu. And mind it please, these were the people who owned apple orchards or some similar kind of fortunes in different parts of the valley and were living life king-size there. And you term it an emotional bondage? I pray to Almighty that you and your clan never face similar situation as faced by Kashmiri Pandits (loss of roots, loss of identity, loss of fortunes, loss of everything).For Kashmiri Pandits it was not exodus, it was genocide for them. I pray Almighty again that your genes are not met with similar fate.
    So if I respect you and your genes, I in return expect similar favour from you. And if you still decide to demean my genes, I will offer my prayers to Almighty with more vigor till you gain some better sense and are cured of your myopic vision. So if you suggest that India, Pakistan and China shall be amputated please restrain yourself. Since I respect your nationality, I expect same from you for India, Pakistan and China.

  30. vinay

    Attention: Ms Rajni
    I understand your pain when you say that the kids that should have been attending schools, should have been taught to sing and dance, should have been taught the beautiful ways of life are being used to pelt stones. It is a pity and shame on Geelani, Masarat Alam Bhatt, Asiya Andrabi, Mehbooba Mufti Sayeed, Yaseen Malik and their rabid clan. I have already said in my previous argument that all these people have ensured that the kids in their own family seek the best possible education abroad and mislead the people who can ill-afford the similar luxuries and rather block their opportunities by jeopardizing the state administration, making schools and colleges non-functional. This way they are achieving many advantages. First and foremost is the obvious challenges thrown to Indian State. But the more deep-rooted is the greed of theses rabid folks that ensures blocking the opportunities for the masses so that there is no competition for their own kids and they come back with foreign accent and rule the people who are deprived. It is like keep poor always poor or keep deprived always deprived so that I can rule them.

    And when you said, “We have seen Kashmir as peaceful and beautiful. There was an article this last Sunday that Kashmir has lost one generation to militancy and another generation is losing out to drugs.” That is exactly the genesis of Kashmir problem. That is what West wants. By creating an independent region in Kashmir they want to create a conduit for drugs (read opium) for which lands and weather are very fertile in the region. Afghanistan is facing this problem and has collapsed for the same reasons. And combine it with Islamic fanaticism you have a deadly combination of a bomb which even more deadlier than any nuclear power created so far.

  31. vinay

    Attention: Mr. Roop Wokhlu & Mr Lalit Nagrath

    I am in complete agreement with you that we should hold our ground in Kashmir and not cede our land even to the size of pin-tip to these ill-willing terrorists and their fathers. You know why India was appreciated for 1999 war in Kargil? It was because we fought back from our side taking all precautions not to cross over to the other side and emerged winners. I salute soldiers of my country. If my soldiers are so brave then I am not afraid in my country. I feel very safe here. I have such a peaceful night of sleep just because of them.

  32. vinay

    Attention: Mr. Ashish

    First let us accept the fact that Pakistan is a reality and has evolved as a great nation in itself. Yes it has its problems. That does not give us any right to talk ill of it. Have you ever gone to any chat rooms and chatted with any Pakistani? If not so please do chat with them. Have a dialogue with them. You will be surprised that those dynamic young people are no different than you. They adore India so much. In fact they love to have a citizenship in India. The only restrictions are the division on political lines. I wish and pray that India and Pakistan prove wiser nations and merge together once again like Germany did. If Germany could do it, what holds us back? So that Manto will be singing a song of peace in his grave. And for the rabid ilk of Geelani and his cohorts on both the sides of the fence, they will face a severe ailment of indigestion leading to constipation. So let us respect Pakistan for what it is. Let us not behave as a big bullying brother.

  33. vinay

    Kind Attention: Mr. Sabbah Haji

    Mr. Sabbah, before I start my discussion with you I would love to share an experience with you. I guess you will agree with me Switzerland is a very rich country. Rich means being economically strong. And for economically strong it is said religion hardly matters. I do not think you will dispute with me on this account. It is a peace loving nation and does not need any army to guard its borders. Rather it uses its soldiers for other reasons to serve the community. You will agree with me on this account too. I had a teacher in this country, a man younger to me by five years. He is my friend now. He was born to Christian parents. As he grew up and became independent earning member of his family, he started looking for match for himself. Around same time a Muslim girl from Morocco came visiting in his neighborhood. My fried sought her for his wife but the girl put forward a condition that he needs to accept Islam or forget about dreaming of seeking her as his wife. The struggle carried on for couple of years till my friend agreed to condition and finally accepted Islam. Now my friend is father of two beautiful daughters both carrying the Islamic heritage in them. After getting married he has visited many important Islamic shrines. Observes and follows all Islamic rituals with total dedication. I have high regard for my friend and his family. His wife is such a devoted lady I sometimes feel jealous of him. I put forward simple two questions to this friend:
    1. If this girl was insisting on you for accepting Islam did you not ask her to accept Christianity? To this his reply was no and he was so desperate to seek her as his wife and if accepting Islam was the solution so be it. And further if she was forced to accept Christianity she would have been murdered back at home and he was very concerned about her safety. He did not want to lose her in any way and not by her death at all. And please remember Morocco is reasonably rich country as well.
    2. Then I asked him, was it not possible that he married her and follow Christianity as she followed her Islamic tradition and let the children decide for themselves what they wanted. Yet again he said the safety concerns were a priority and he would have lost her in this situation too.

    Now keeping all above in mind I come to you to discuss few things with you. As Mr. Kaul has already wondered at your being a minority in your own religion I too appreciate the same about you but with reservations. Mr. Sabbah we do not want you to be apologetic for being a right thinking Muslim, rather we would love to see you an upright man who can hold his head high in dignity and take pride in our friendship. We would love to see you offer us the competition that guides us onto righteous path enriching both you and me. Let us both gain from each other’s association. Let us show the world that they need to put off their colored glasses and not force the color of their choice on us. But before I extend my hand to you for shake I would ask few simple questions to you.
    1. Will you offer a girl from your clan as bride to a boy from my clan?
    2. If yes, will you refrain from imposing your force on the boy to accept Islam?
    3. If the boy refuses to follow your wishes will he and his wife be safe? Won’t your clan thirst for their blood?
    4. In such scenario of their safety being at stake will you come forward to protect them?

    You may please recall here that there have been instances (forced or willing) that you have taken the Hindu girls as brides and forced them to accept Islam whereas reverses has never occurred. And sometimes it has happened that the poor girl has been cheated into being a second or third or fourth wife. I will be happily surprised if you show me even a single case all over the world that proves me wrong. So, as I put forward you the above questions you have every right to question me the same way. And my answer to these questions will be first offer girl from your clan as bride I will be the first person to appreciate and celebrate your move and would love to go to any extent to protect the couple from the onslaught from my clan (you will have to take care of your clan). As such my clan will open up the arms for your proposal so they would join me in celebrations. At the same time I assure you that we won’t force our wish on the girl to accept Hinduism. She will be free to follow Islam if she wants. And we will let her children choose for themselves. I further assure you that she would be one and only one wife wedded to the boy.

    So when you do not want a purely Islamic state then why not encourage such marriages? After all Soofi saints Bulle Shah & Amir Khusrau sang paeans for both Lord Krishna and Allah. And when Allah and Lord Krishna are not different then how are we mortals different? And when we are not different why we create boundaries? And when we are descendants from same lineage then why should we draw lines between us?

  34. vijay Kumar

    My heart tells me that some actual physical divsion of Jammu, Ladkah and Kashmir has to happen now otherwise the separatists will not let progress happen.

    The old policitians are all afraid of the potential popularity of Omar. They know that if he occupies the CM’s chair, it could well be curtains for them for the next 30 years. So these sly mena will continue agitating and be create violence.

    However if the area is partitioned and the valley reduced to 3000 sq km, then it will take the wind out of their sails.

    How many 3000 sq km, landlocked countries exist on this globe?

  35. vikram

    there is a good way to acid test the whole muslim theory.answer this by assuming for a moment that india is a muslim country.so assuming that india is a muslim nation, as KM’s do you still want autonomy, independence, and for what reasons ?

  36. Mahesh

    Today, in an interview on TV Geelani also mentioned the very same thing Kaul has been saying here, that Kashmir is too small to be an independent state and the only viable options are either India or Pakistan, and of course he favors Pakistan.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/newsxlive#p/a/u/2/pP5Uuebtn9s

  37. vinay

    Attention Mr. Vikram
    Great idea Mr. Vikram. I wonder why this thought never crossed my mind. A plausible argument. Thanks for bringing it into context. After all Muslims in Kerala (which is in no way connected to Pakistan geographically) have their convictions towards Pakistan. A slightest opportunity makes Madauni and his cohorts sing their reliance to Pakistan. So turn whole India into Pakistan. Great idea. So we won’t have Geelani or Madauni. But we will all have Zardari as the leader of country protecting Taliban forces in undivided idea and Geelani and Madauni will be catalyst forces for Taliban activities to carry us back to cave ages. Well cave ages will at least have an advantage that we would re-invent ourselves and create new religions. But some worm somewhere will again crop up that will be guided by Taliban philosophy. Good.

    But are we discussing Islam bashing here? No. Aim of discussion is not that. Then why we divert? Remember my very first argument. I had said in the very first few lines that the discussion on Kashmir is like traveling past a black hole in space and getting sucked into it by virtue of the gravitational pull of the black hole. There is no trace left of the identity getting sucked into black hole. Only outcome being the black hole growing bigger and bigger ultimately leading to collapse of black hole and leading to big bang. And that is exactly happens when we discuss Kashmir, we need to discuss Islam. And Islam is like a black hole in space. I am sure when this black hole collapses there will be a whole new beautiful universe created. But till then everything will be sucked into. We can not prevent it. We have no means to prevent it. Only solution is black hole gaining strength and then collapse because of its own strength. Even Nostradamus too has prophesied the collapse of one great religion and there have been many strong hints towards this black hole. So unless the Islamic think tank invests some time to correct its ways and force the constituents of this black hole to correct their ways, it is doomed to prove the Nostradamus prophecy correct.

    My dear Muslim friends. Think.

  38. Saahil

    independent Kashmir Cannot survive more than one day, i’m talking about Kashmir only not Jammu and Kashmir.
    Kashmiri separatist leader GEELANI also accept that independent Kashmir cann’t survive they need someone to take care of Kashmir and they also accept that Jammu and Ladakh is happy with India they said ,
    “it is the hard reality and we can’t deny this minority are happy with India”.

    one thing i want to tell you if these separatist leader come in jammu and Ladakh and talk about Azadi than definitely they will be killed by that region peoples.

    they always talking about from last 63year we are suffering, liars atleat try to speak the truth. you are always against India and not only India but DOGRA RULE TOO.

  39. Vishal

    Never read such an Article on Kashmir anywhere else. I am an India, but still was not clear on may points, like boundaries, areas , POK etc.
    A common man in India has always treated Kashmir as our integral part and all Kashmirs as our brother and sisters, but its the politics with in country and outside country which is ruining, futures of Kashmirs. Not sure when this all will settle with peace.

    Thanks for such a great write.

  40. ashok kaul

    Dear Sir,
    I have also created a blog which is on similar line of thinking as in your article please visit at the address of which is http://ashokachkan.blogspot.com/. If any referendem has to take place then mathmatical model has to be created so the weightage to the area covered in that district is to be taken into account just because Kashmir valley being most fertile of all J & K and majority of people are concentrated in that area that does not give them right to decide about independance of whole state and Ladahk being a classical case where there is hardly any population but the Kashmir valley will fit into one corner. Also Pundits are equal stakeholders so no political solution should be consedered without consent of Kashmiri Pundits We have been bombarded by various TV Channels projecting the cause of Kashmir without even presenting what Kashmiri Pundits want and rightly so because we are microscopic political entity so we must come together on one platform to raise out voice that no solution is complete without our consent and our discent in any solution should be veto of that solution.This is for the sacrifices of
    our forefather’s who suffered all the persecution to save their culture we are descendants of that race and it is our duty to save our culture in Kashmir.We must present a memorandum on behalf of all Kashmiri Pundits association of all over world to the interlocuter appointed by government of India saying any political solution should be within the constitution of India and not what those seperatist are propagating. I have created blog on Kashmir Issue address of which is let us come together on one issue and with one voice. hope you will take necessary action for the benefit of Kashmiri Culture and heritage which we are so proud of